Mid-Game Strategy - Guild Wars Forums

dixie · Dec 27, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Hey, everybody, my 20th level elementalist/mesmer is slogging through Thirsty River and making limited progress. So far in the game I haven't given much thought to developing a sophisticated build for an E/Me like those discussed in the builds forum. Up until now I've simply focused on being a Fire or an Air Elementalist; pretty standard stuff.

Because it's slow going in Thirsty River, I'm thinking that I need to be more cunning in choosing a E/Me build.

OK, so I looked at the various E/Me builds in the builds forum. I notice that many builds there require skills I have not yet acquired. Some are elite skills and some are acquired from places my character hasn't visited yet.

My question is this: should I stop hitting my head against a wall in Thirsty and devote time to collecting special skills to develop a strong E/Me build?

Thanks for your advice.

Dixie

Lost · Dec 27, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

At that point in the game you can buy all of the skills avaliable to you from the various towns. The only exception is a couple of elite skills you can look for in the desert missions. There isn't much collecting you need to do yet unless you have no money and/or skipped some places. Try to read over the Thirsty River strategies and find a good group of experienced players to help you.

AxeMe · Dec 27, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

One thing to consider -- early in the game you can do fine, even with a terrible group. You're reaching the point in the game where the skills of the group you're in are (pick one) more important, just important, as your own skills.

This means that a new skill comes into play for you about now. And it has nothing at all to do with elites, smile. That skill is in learning to recognize good groups if you're using PUGs.

dixie · Dec 27, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Lost and AxeMe, thanks for your posts. To date I have only used henchmen. I've heard so many horror stories on these boards about pick up groups, that I have avoided them. They seem to be more of a burden than a help.

I'm not opposed to joining a guild, but have no idea how to choose a good one. There's a lot of talk about idiotic guilds and guild leaders too; as you know.

If possible, I would like to continue to develop my character's build and not rely on other players. I think that I can build a much stronger character than the one I have.

The basic question: should I divert attention from finishing missions and spend time chasing down skills to build a stronger character.

Thanks so much for your help.

Dixie

AxeMe · Dec 27, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixie

The basic question: should I divert attention from finishing missions and spend time chasing down skills to build a stronger character.

Thanks so much for your help.

Dixie

I don't think there is a "right" answer to the question.

Either could work out just fine.

But since it's not very satisfying to get a non-answer, in your shoes I'd move ahead with the missions. You'll find - in the normal progression - elite skills to cap as you move ahead. And, when your character reaches Perdition Rock, you will have the option of buying any non-elite skill.

MoeSyzslak · Dec 27, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixie

The basic question: should I divert attention from finishing missions and spend time chasing down skills to build a stronger character.

Thanks so much for your help.

Dixie

In your position (diff professions) I went ahead with the missions.

Once I got to Thunderhead Keep, I doubled back for the +15pt attribute quests.

Also, guildwiki.org is your friend for assuring you don't miss any Elites along the way.

Yichi · Dec 27, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

In all honesty, there is no "right" answer to your question. The build that your wanting to run for your char requires you to have skilsl that are just a little further in the game than you are at the moment. No bigie, just look up all the skilsl and find one that gives a similar result or that you can swap in its place until you can get it.

Pugs can be a horrifying expierence, but can be quite entertaining when you find a good one. The skilled players that you meet and get along with in those pugs, add to your friends list. this way you wont have to rely on PUG's and can make a group out of people that you know. Learn from others mistakes so that you dont make them also. The hench in some areas can suck horribly and some of the hench are known for tanking or doign something else than what they are supposed to do.

In your case, i would continue on with your journey. remember places that youve been to you can always come back too at any given time. Grab the skills and items that you want in the game, and have fun while doing it.

dixie · Dec 27, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Axe, Moe and Mist, thanks so much for your replies. I think that each of you is correct in saying that "there is no right answer."

Mistress is suggesting a nice compromise. What I hear her saying is to decide on an "ideal" build that I would like to develop in the long run. And, if I do not currently have the required skills, find substitues until I do.

With this suggestion I can have it both ways to some extent. On the one hand, I can begin to retool my build and on the other hand not take too much time off from pursuing the missions.

Seems like a reasonable solution to me.

Any other ideas?

Again, AxeMe, MoeSyzslak and MistressYichi, thank you so much for your help.

Dixie

striderkaaru · Dec 27, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

yichi pretty much has it right.

basically, you don't want to spend too much time developing a build if you're just trying to get through a certain area. all you need are skills that will deal with the obstacles there.

for the ascension missions, i would highly suggest looking into the water magic line. maelstrom + a slowing water spell is a powerful combo for dealing with clumps of the ancients. from your mesmer secondary, bring empathy to deal with the warriors and rangers.

like, i said, you don't really need an in-depth build, but one that will deal with the enemies in the are you are in.

art_ · Dec 27, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

You may just find that knowing that there is a trick to thirsty river, ie waiting between fights, might be the answer.

dixie · Dec 27, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Strider and Art, thanks for the advice.

Strider, you're no doubt right. I would be satisfied with my current build, if I knew how to get through Thirsty. It's the trouble I'm having there that makes me question my build.

Art, I would appreciate knowing more about your reference to a "trick to thirsty river."

Thanks for your help.

Dixie

Hockster · Dec 27, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

The key to thirsty is to watch the timer. You must kill the priest, not the boss, before it hits two minutes, and every two minute mark thereafter. Drop a few of the warriors outside, and as the time approaches the 1 minute mark attack the priest. Backfire is a great spell for it. Then snare it with a water spell. You can probably drop metor shower on it then to finish it off. Mop up the rest of the peons and always kill the boss last. You should consider bringing a ward along to help protect your team. Especially if you do it with all henchies.

If I were running an ele/mes build, I'd concentrate on domination and air. Empathy, as mentioned above, backfire for casters, and a couple of interupts plus blinding flash makes things easier for the healers. Target the warriors to get henchies to attack them, then tab to the casters and use your domination and interrupt skills. Jua always pay attention to the clock.

Yogi's Pain · Dec 27, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Ele is one of the easier professions I've found to experiment with. I usually decide air, earth or fire and just fill in slots with 3 or 4 favorite spells and the rest are completely random. Fire is probably the easiest to go this way as it has the most spells.

Key with Thirsty as stated is the timer. However you can't panic if its getting close to the 2 minute mark. Take your time, clear the mobs outside of the priest area and when it hits 1:20-1:30 then worry about the priest if you aren't already attacking him. If you are having trouble outside and its already past 1:30, don't do a suicide run in after the priest, that won't solve anything. Not the end of the world if they get ressed.

As for using only henches, thats your choice. However I would have missed out on 80% of the gaming experience if I didn't jump in PUGs. While you get horrible groups every now and then, I would guess 10% of the time, the number of decent groups far exceed that and every now and then you'll find that elite group which will put a smile on your face.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 27, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Heh, speaking of elite groups, just did thirsty with one such group...
5 of us, the other Warrior dropped because we didn't have any human monks.
--> Me, a level 19 W/Mo (Succor whammo, with a spatha. No FDS for me)
--> A level 16 curse necro
--> A level 16 interruptor/archer ranger
--> A level 17 trapper/interruptor ranger
--> Alesia, the henchie ;D

We did the first round in 1:39
Second round in 3:21
Third in 5:41

But, of course, we were t3h suXxorz cuz we dint have 2 monks an 2 nukerz and 2 \/\/ l-l /-\ /\/\ /\/\ 0 Z with teh f13ry dragon sword and t3h m3nd1ng. Lol, we went back there after we did the mission, and taunted all the level 20 W/Mo's and level 20 nukers spamming 'LFG 1337 group - no noobs', 'LF 2 monks for mish and bonus' and 'go away ragners, nekroz and mezmers u suck go bak 2 pvp'. 'Twas funny.

So, apologizing for my pointless tangent, kindly ask for a disruption ranger for taking on the priest and monk boss, if one isn't available, use domination magic for anti-caster spells. Yeah, and go back to Denravi and Amnoon just to check what spells you missed. I'd reccomend earth magic for this particular mission, Earthquake is now available to you, Obsidian Flame opens a whole can of whup-ass on bosses and priests, and Ward Against Melee is generally useful. Oh, and bring a Signet of Capture (or two...), each of the bosses has an elite for each class. Yay for you, you get your first eiltes to play around with. Anything else? ... Oh yes, worry not about elite skills, there are very few available to you right now, you'll get a whole bunch more to hunt down after ascending. And do try to have fun. ^^

Hockster · Dec 27, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

<---Wa/Mo with mending does the mission in about 15 minutes with just 4 henchies. Fourteen swords and not a FDS in the lot.

Even though 90% of wamos are useless, there's still some that aren't.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 27, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Meh, the point is, 90% of Whammos are USELESS. And as for Mending... 6 health a second really isn't much. I'd rather give the monks another .3 energy per second, thankyou very much. And it's worrying how few people actually know of Succor...

dixie · Dec 27, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Hockster, Yogi's and Alex, thanks for the tips.

Alex, I understand most of what you said in the final paragraph; and little before that. Sorry. I like what you suggest about going back and picking up spells that I might have missed. And, your discussion of Earth Magic's application to Thirsty is helpful. Thanks.

Hockster, thanks for the tips about the combination of domination and air spells. I am thinking seriously about an elementalist/mesmer combination. This will be my first experience in using it. So far, I've focused strictly on elementalist spells.

Yogi's, thanks for the tips about the mission. I will give your advice about PUGs serious consideration.

Thanks again for your help. I sincerely appreciate it.

Dixie

Dec 27, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08	#1
dixie Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nebraska Profession: E/Me	Mid-Game Strategy Hey, everybody, my 20th level elementalist/mesmer is slogging through Thirsty River and making limited progress. So far in the game I haven't given much thought to developing a sophisticated build for an E/Me like those discussed in the builds forum. Up until now I've simply focused on being a Fire or an Air Elementalist; pretty standard stuff. Because it's slow going in Thirsty River, I'm thinking that I need to be more cunning in choosing a E/Me build. OK, so I looked at the various E/Me builds in the builds forum. I notice that many builds there require skills I have not yet acquired. Some are elite skills and some are acquired from places my character hasn't visited yet. My question is this: should I stop hitting my head against a wall in Thirsty and devote time to collecting special skills to develop a strong E/Me build? Thanks for your advice. Dixie

Dec 27, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37	#3
AxeMe Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta Guild: HEX Profession: W/	One thing to consider -- early in the game you can do fine, even with a terrible group. You're reaching the point in the game where the skills of the group you're in are (pick one) more important, just important, as your own skills. This means that a new skill comes into play for you about now. And it has nothing at all to do with elites, smile. That skill is in learning to recognize good groups if you're using PUGs. Last edited by AxeMe; Dec 27, 2005 at 02:52 PM // 14:52..

Dec 27, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41	#9
striderkaaru Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS], Retired Officer Profession: W/	yichi pretty much has it right. basically, you don't want to spend too much time developing a build if you're just trying to get through a certain area. all you need are skills that will deal with the obstacles there. for the ascension missions, i would highly suggest looking into the water magic line. maelstrom + a slowing water spell is a powerful combo for dealing with clumps of the ancients. from your mesmer secondary, bring empathy to deal with the warriors and rangers. like, i said, you don't really need an in-depth build, but one that will deal with the enemies in the are you are in. Last edited by striderkaaru; Dec 27, 2005 at 04:50 PM // 16:50..

Dec 27, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33	#2
Lost Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hell's Precipice	At that point in the game you can buy all of the skills avaliable to you from the various towns. The only exception is a couple of elite skills you can look for in the desert missions. There isn't much collecting you need to do yet unless you have no money and/or skipped some places. Try to read over the Thirsty River strategies and find a good group of experienced players to help you.

Dec 27, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51	#4
dixie Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nebraska Profession: E/Me	Lost and AxeMe, thanks for your posts. To date I have only used henchmen. I've heard so many horror stories on these boards about pick up groups, that I have avoided them. They seem to be more of a burden than a help. I'm not opposed to joining a guild, but have no idea how to choose a good one. There's a lot of talk about idiotic guilds and guild leaders too; as you know. If possible, I would like to continue to develop my character's build and not rely on other players. I think that I can build a much stronger character than the one I have. The basic question: should I divert attention from finishing missions and spend time chasing down skills to build a stronger character. Thanks so much for your help. Dixie

Dec 27, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30	#7
Yichi Furnace Stoker Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match... Guild: Dark Alley [dR]	In all honesty, there is no "right" answer to your question. The build that your wanting to run for your char requires you to have skilsl that are just a little further in the game than you are at the moment. No bigie, just look up all the skilsl and find one that gives a similar result or that you can swap in its place until you can get it. Pugs can be a horrifying expierence, but can be quite entertaining when you find a good one. The skilled players that you meet and get along with in those pugs, add to your friends list. this way you wont have to rely on PUG's and can make a group out of people that you know. Learn from others mistakes so that you dont make them also. The hench in some areas can suck horribly and some of the hench are known for tanking or doign something else than what they are supposed to do. In your case, i would continue on with your journey. remember places that youve been to you can always come back too at any given time. Grab the skills and items that you want in the game, and have fun while doing it.

Dec 27, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54	#8
dixie Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nebraska Profession: E/Me	Axe, Moe and Mist, thanks so much for your replies. I think that each of you is correct in saying that "there is no right answer." Mistress is suggesting a nice compromise. What I hear her saying is to decide on an "ideal" build that I would like to develop in the long run. And, if I do not currently have the required skills, find substitues until I do. With this suggestion I can have it both ways to some extent. On the one hand, I can begin to retool my build and on the other hand not take too much time off from pursuing the missions. Seems like a reasonable solution to me. Any other ideas? Again, AxeMe, MoeSyzslak and MistressYichi, thank you so much for your help. Dixie

Dec 27, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42	#10
art_ Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005	You may just find that knowing that there is a trick to thirsty river, ie waiting between fights, might be the answer.

Dec 27, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56	#11
dixie Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nebraska Profession: E/Me	Strider and Art, thanks for the advice. Strider, you're no doubt right. I would be satisfied with my current build, if I knew how to get through Thirsty. It's the trouble I'm having there that makes me question my build. Art, I would appreciate knowing more about your reference to a "trick to thirsty river." Thanks for your help. Dixie

Dec 27, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42	#12
Hockster Banned Join Date: Jul 2005	The key to thirsty is to watch the timer. You must kill the priest, not the boss, before it hits two minutes, and every two minute mark thereafter. Drop a few of the warriors outside, and as the time approaches the 1 minute mark attack the priest. Backfire is a great spell for it. Then snare it with a water spell. You can probably drop metor shower on it then to finish it off. Mop up the rest of the peons and always kill the boss last. You should consider bringing a ward along to help protect your team. Especially if you do it with all henchies. If I were running an ele/mes build, I'd concentrate on domination and air. Empathy, as mentioned above, backfire for casters, and a couple of interupts plus blinding flash makes things easier for the healers. Target the warriors to get henchies to attack them, then tab to the casters and use your domination and interrupt skills. Jua always pay attention to the clock.

Dec 27, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57	#13
Yogi's Pain Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: E/Me	Ele is one of the easier professions I've found to experiment with. I usually decide air, earth or fire and just fill in slots with 3 or 4 favorite spells and the rest are completely random. Fire is probably the easiest to go this way as it has the most spells. Key with Thirsty as stated is the timer. However you can't panic if its getting close to the 2 minute mark. Take your time, clear the mobs outside of the priest area and when it hits 1:20-1:30 then worry about the priest if you aren't already attacking him. If you are having trouble outside and its already past 1:30, don't do a suicide run in after the priest, that won't solve anything. Not the end of the world if they get ressed. As for using only henches, thats your choice. However I would have missed out on 80% of the gaming experience if I didn't jump in PUGs. While you get horrible groups every now and then, I would guess 10% of the time, the number of decent groups far exceed that and every now and then you'll find that elite group which will put a smile on your face.

Dec 27, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33	#14
Stormlord Alex Grotto Attendant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island Guild: Soul of Melandru [sOm] Profession: W/E	Heh, speaking of elite groups, just did thirsty with one such group... 5 of us, the other Warrior dropped because we didn't have any human monks. --> Me, a level 19 W/Mo (Succor whammo, with a spatha. No FDS for me) --> A level 16 curse necro --> A level 16 interruptor/archer ranger --> A level 17 trapper/interruptor ranger --> Alesia, the henchie ;D We did the first round in 1:39 Second round in 3:21 Third in 5:41 But, of course, we were t3h suXxorz cuz we dint have 2 monks an 2 nukerz and 2 \/\/ l-l /-\ /\/\ /\/\ 0 Z with teh f13ry dragon sword and t3h m3nd1ng. Lol, we went back there after we did the mission, and taunted all the level 20 W/Mo's and level 20 nukers spamming 'LFG 1337 group - no noobs', 'LF 2 monks for mish and bonus' and 'go away ragners, nekroz and mezmers u suck go bak 2 pvp'. 'Twas funny. So, apologizing for my pointless tangent, kindly ask for a disruption ranger for taking on the priest and monk boss, if one isn't available, use domination magic for anti-caster spells. Yeah, and go back to Denravi and Amnoon just to check what spells you missed. I'd reccomend earth magic for this particular mission, Earthquake is now available to you, Obsidian Flame opens a whole can of whup-ass on bosses and priests, and Ward Against Melee is generally useful. Oh, and bring a Signet of Capture (or two...), each of the bosses has an elite for each class. Yay for you, you get your first eiltes to play around with. Anything else? ... Oh yes, worry not about elite skills, there are very few available to you right now, you'll get a whole bunch more to hunt down after ascending. And do try to have fun. ^^

Dec 27, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04	#15
Hockster Banned Join Date: Jul 2005	<---Wa/Mo with mending does the mission in about 15 minutes with just 4 henchies. Fourteen swords and not a FDS in the lot. Even though 90% of wamos are useless, there's still some that aren't.

Dec 27, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07	#16
Stormlord Alex Grotto Attendant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island Guild: Soul of Melandru [sOm] Profession: W/E	Meh, the point is, 90% of Whammos are USELESS. And as for Mending... 6 health a second really isn't much. I'd rather give the monks another .3 energy per second, thankyou very much. And it's worrying how few people actually know of Succor...

Dec 27, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47	#17
dixie Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nebraska Profession: E/Me	Hockster, Yogi's and Alex, thanks for the tips. Alex, I understand most of what you said in the final paragraph; and little before that. Sorry. I like what you suggest about going back and picking up spells that I might have missed. And, your discussion of Earth Magic's application to Thirsty is helpful. Thanks. Hockster, thanks for the tips about the combination of domination and air spells. I am thinking seriously about an elementalist/mesmer combination. This will be my first experience in using it. So far, I've focused strictly on elementalist spells. Yogi's, thanks for the tips about the mission. I will give your advice about PUGs serious consideration. Thanks again for your help. I sincerely appreciate it. Dixie